2014 Subscription Fees now due

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Bazza
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2014 Subscription Fees now due

Postby Bazza » 12 Jan 2014, 20:45

Please note yearly subscription's to Iceni Marksmen are now due. For the record, it remains at £35 for adults but, just £20 for 65's and over. A new reduced fee of £5 for junior members, who must be accompanied by a fully paid up member, is available.

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Re: 2014 Subscription Fees now due

Postby GerryW » 12 Jan 2014, 20:56

Bazza wrote:Please note yearly subscription's to Iceni Marksmen are now due. For the record, it remains at £35 for adults but, just £20 for 65's and over. A new reduced fee of £5 for junior members, who must be accompanied by a fully paid up member, is available.

Thought that should read "who must be accompanied by parent/guardian who must be a fully paid up member"?

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Re: 2014 Subscription Fees now due

Postby SteveC » 12 Jan 2014, 22:21

GerryW wrote:Thought that should read "who must be accompanied by parent/guardian who must be a fully paid up member"?


Does it need to be? For example when Ive brought Jacob up the club when Simons been busy?
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Re: 2014 Subscription Fees now due

Postby GerryW » 13 Jan 2014, 20:37

SteveC wrote:
GerryW wrote:Thought that should read "who must be accompanied by parent/guardian who must be a fully paid up member"?


Does it need to be? For example when Ive brought Jacob up the club when Simons been busy?

Thought that was what was said @ the meeting - rather than somebody dropping child off & leaving them in the 'charge' of the club?

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Re: 2014 Subscription Fees now due

Postby Bazza » 13 Jan 2014, 21:16

I can't imagine someone dropping their kiddy off in the hope someone from the club will just happen to look after them. After all, WWC (working with children) and CRB (criminal records bureau) checks come in to force. Also, the club is not insured for random members to look after juniors. To re-cap, the child has to be accompanied by a fully paid up member who is their parent/guardian. I'm not sure how the law relates in Steve's case where he brings Jacob along, I assume the parents permission is considered to be ok. One thing that does concern me though is anyone who is on the ground, whether shooting or not, should have their address details recorded as part of our insurance requirement.

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Re: 2014 Subscription Fees now due

Postby SteveC » 14 Jan 2014, 06:56

I think Im just not sure what the definition of Guardian is. I have always presumed its a legal term meaning a stand-in parent, not just looking after someone elses child. Is a baby sitter a guardian for example? Anyone know for sure? :?:
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Re: 2014 Subscription Fees now due

Postby Chris » 14 Jan 2014, 07:04

Hi Steve,

Think it is where you have been awarded legal custody of a minor where you are not the birth parent.

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Re: 2014 Subscription Fees now due

Postby SteveC » 14 Jan 2014, 18:10

Chris wrote:Hi Steve,

Think it is where you have been awarded legal custody of a minor where you are not the birth parent.


Yeah, thats pretty much what I thought. So me bringing Simons boy up the club wouldnt be allowed if we state 'parent/guardian'.

Just 'accompanied by a paid up club member' should suffice I would have thought.
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Re: 2014 Subscription Fees now due

Postby Chris » 14 Jan 2014, 18:57

Steve,

I don't imagine any one would have an issue with what you propose but I guess you would retain responsibility for him and must supervise him when at the club. Don't know if you mentioned age, but there is the up to 14 years requiring supervision of someone over 21 law to consider. I am guessing that anyone under the age of 14 would need to be supervised, by the person bringing the child to the club at all times. Don't know what the stance is on 14years and older? I would imagine much the same for insurance purposes. Probably best to check the position with the club insurers.
I brought my boy up to the club as a non member ( I hadn't joined at that point) and stayed with him on the range. He is 13, I would be interested to know what the position is for when he turns 14?

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Re: 2014 Subscription Fees now due

Postby SteveC » 14 Jan 2014, 22:51

Yes, the insurance is the issue. If the club rules state 'parent/guardian' and there was an accident and it turned out the supervising adult wasnt either then there could be problems. If we stick to 'paid up member' then all is good. It might be a bit pedantic but I just want to clarify this for the good of everyone.

So basically in my opinion Barrys original statement "who must be accompanied by a fully paid up member" was fine until Gerry piped up. :mrgreen:
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Re: 2014 Subscription Fees now due

Postby Del » 15 Jan 2014, 09:57

Morning ladies 8-)

The club does have to be very carefull with the wording of this because non related paid up members supervising minors drops the club into the CRB area.

Parent/guardian needs to be in the wording and they have to be present or CRB ing will apply.

Now i think it's all crap and over the top and i personally have no problem picking up another members sibling taking them to the club then returning them home after a days shooting,but for the sake of the club the wording of this rule needs to protect the club from any unwanted legal ramblings.

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Re: 2014 Subscription Fees now due

Postby SteveC » 15 Jan 2014, 16:25

Del wrote:Morning ladies 8-)

The club does have to be very carefull with the wording of this because non related paid up members supervising minors drops the club into the CRB area.

Parent/guardian needs to be in the wording and they have to be present or CRB ing will apply.

Now i think it's all crap and over the top and i personally have no problem picking up another members sibling taking them to the club then returning them home after a days shooting,but for the sake of the club the wording of this rule needs to protect the club from any unwanted legal ramblings.


Surely that doesnt apply to family friends? It would be absolutely ridiculous if it does, (going back to myself and Simons boy) as it would mean I wouldnt be able to take him anywhere (the shops, zoo, a park etc) without passing a CRB check (which I have as it happens). That cant be right. The club isnt offering a child supervision service so I cant see that CRB is relevant.

Damn, this has gone massively off topic from the first post. :roll:
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Re: 2014 Subscription Fees now due

Postby Del » 15 Jan 2014, 17:17

I agree it's crap and we arn't far off topic as it's the wording of the club rule that is important,as Gerry said it needs to be clear that a parent/guardian is responsible not just a paid club member.

Steve you can take your friends child shopping n stuff no prob it's as soon as soon as minors start attending clubs that child protection policies start coming into play.

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Re: 2014 Subscription Fees now due

Postby SteveC » 15 Jan 2014, 17:37

Del wrote:I agree it's crap and we arn't far off topic as it's the wording of the club rule that is important,as Gerry said it needs to be clear that a parent/guardian is responsible not just a paid club member.

Steve you can take your friends child shopping n stuff no prob it's as soon as soon as minors start attending clubs that child protection policies start coming into play.


As I say though, surely that only apples to clubs offering a child supervision service i.e. a youth club, which we dont.
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Re: 2014 Subscription Fees now due

Postby Del » 15 Jan 2014, 19:15

And thats why the club rule needs to be worded as such.
:lol: you have to remember that rules need to be worded for idiots and the litigious,those like yourself and the others at the club with common sense will carry on as normal 8-)

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Re: 2014 Subscription Fees now due

Postby Todd » 15 Jan 2014, 22:24

Sorry Steve CRB does apply. I can't even deliver in to a school unless my staff have CRB CHECK IN PLACE. Crap I know but the law.

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Re: 2014 Subscription Fees now due

Postby SteveC » 16 Jan 2014, 06:55

Todd wrote:Sorry Steve CRB does apply. I can't even deliver in to a school unless my staff have CRB CHECK IN PLACE. Crap I know but the law.


I was under the impression that changed a year or two ago. I often work in schools and CRBs were always asked for. Now they arent as Im an occasional worker and dont have direct contact with any of the pupils. I'll ask work about it and see if they have any answers.
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Re: 2014 Subscription Fees now due

Postby Chris » 16 Jan 2014, 07:05

So, if I bring my son along, he has to tag along with me wherever I go. For example, I would not be allowed to leave him plinking on the range, whilst I went off onto the course even though I had given him permission to do so ( when he is 14 ) without someone else being crb checked being around on the range.

I imagine it would be the same if Steve brought his friends lad too!

So I guess if you bring 'em you look after them at all times or the club needs to go down the CRB route!!

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Re: 2014 Subscription Fees now due

Postby GerryW » 16 Jan 2014, 10:49

Chris wrote:..........So I guess if you bring 'em you look after them at all times .....

That's the idea I get ;) But to try and 'dress it up' into 'legalese' is the problem (see all of the above) :?

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Re: 2014 Subscription Fees now due

Postby GerryW » 16 Jan 2014, 10:53

SteveC wrote:
Todd wrote:Sorry Steve CRB does apply. I can't even deliver in to a school unless my staff have CRB CHECK IN PLACE. Crap I know but the law.


I was under the impression that changed a year or two ago. I often work in schools and CRBs were always asked for. Now they arent as Im an occasional worker and dont have direct contact with any of the pupils. I'll ask work about it and see if they have any answers.

Probably has - we deliver to all manner of places, schools, care homes etc. etc. and, to my knowledge, no CRB checks have been done on any of us drivers.

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Re: 2014 Subscription Fees now due

Postby SteveC » 16 Jan 2014, 17:32

Right, CRB checks do not apply to the club. It only applies to a Workforce or Volunteers.

We are not a workforce so that element of it isnt an issue. We arent volunteers either, or carers, or providing any service specifically for children, or in regular contact with children.

http://dbsdirect.co.uk/types-of-checks- ... re-for.php

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... y_v2.2.pdf

So thats sorted, so back to 'parent/guardian' thing which again doesnt need to be applied to the club because CRB checks arent an issue. So Barrys original statement of 'paid-up member' is all thats needed and that only applies to paid-up junior members and not to noobies that havent joined the club yet.
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Re: 2014 Subscription Fees now due

Postby Del » 16 Jan 2014, 21:04

well thats all sorted then,we need a nw topic now then :P


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